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Interview with Zak Stein
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Another outstanding dialogue! Where else will you hear the interviewee admit to being more open and expansive because of how well the interviewer was listening? I am no longer amazed when I hear Andrew going right to the heart of the matter—and deeper—in so many different directions in such a vast array of spot-on relative subjects.
Crying practices mentioned during the interview have great applicability. Looking for some additional information about crying in ancient Greece I found the following article.
There was some great stuff in this interview, but I gotta say I was highly dismayed to hear him refer to “my friend Marc Gafni.” Unless he’s referring to some other Marc Gafni (which seems unlikely), he must be talking about this Marc Gafni.
For me (and lots of other people) this would be like saying “My friend (Jeffrey Epstein / Woody Allen / Roman Polanski),” which is to say, problematic at best in that “You are not responsible for what your friends do, but you will be judged by the company you keep” kind of way. I know Gafni as “the guy who caused irreparable damage to Ken Wilber’s Integral community.”
If anyone wants more context on this, William Harryman compiled a bunch of articles on the Marc Gafni controversy back in 2016.
Terry Patton also wrote something about it here.
Obviously this is not directly about Stein, but he mentioned Gafni at least twice in this interview and referred to him as “my friend,” and based on what I know about Gafni I find that deeply disturbing, to the point where it would a) cause me to never trust Zak Stein’s judgment; b) refrain from promoting Stein’s work in any way (given that he apparently goes around pointing people in the direction of Gafni, someone who has caused a great deal of damage to individuals and organizations.
~ArthurG
Totally surprising to read this. Why not email Stein about it? I asked him for reference(s) about the crying practices in ancient Sparta and he responded.
If I was already engaged with Stein’s work I might do so. It seems unlikely that Stein is unaware of Gafni’s reputation issues. I felt a duty to let people here know more context about Marc Gafni, since he was mentioned twice in this interview. How people respond to that is up to them.
~ArthurG
I really enjoyed the conversation between Andrew and Zach. Very heartfelt and one of my favorites. Also interesting to see your comments about one of his references, Marc Gafni. I have heard Andrew speak about how some of these intelligent ( includes realized spiritual leaders) people act so undeveloped ( he uses the word retarded I think ), I don’t think I fully understand why they act retarded when it is pretty clear as day that such behavior is ridiculous by us regular people.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention @ArthurG - I mentioned it to Andrew recently and he agreed we’re going to scrub those bits from the interview.
You’re welcome, and I’m relieved to hear you’re going to edit out those parts. (I’m also glad to have heard the unedited interview, as it gives me important context on Zak Stein.)
~ArthurG